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Poster: Dan Russ Date: Sep 28, 2009 9:27am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: TDIH - TLEO

well, I care. This was a bopping tune and when my boy sang about love I listened. No offense, I mean...

This post was modified by Dan Russ on 2009-09-28 16:27:08

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Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 28, 2009 10:04am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many love songs anyhow?

Got me thinking: what are the "love" songs by the boys? Starting with album by album analysis, what would our list look like?

Hmmm--don't think CPW counts, right? Suppose SugarMag is the first one? More metaphorical, and that's probably why it appeals to me...Til the morning come? Not traditional enough I suppose? Going back to early DEAD, covers like EMRain probably fit. But in general, though love is an element, I think the sap factor only comes in if it possesses the usual "gush" factor associated with early onset infatuation--you know, vap, like Dire's been over the past year...if it is more of a lament about missing someone, etc., doesn't fit in as neatly. And most of our songs by the boys, even if obviously referencing a particular woman, and love, often end up having quite a bit of other thematic elements in them (ScaBeg, Sugaree??? I dunno...).

There really aren't many are there? Anybody else have a list?

This post was modified by William Tell on 2009-09-28 17:04:48

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Poster: light into ashes Date: Sep 28, 2009 12:58pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many love songs anyhow?

Almost all of Pigpen's songs were love songs. In fact, I can recall very few that weren't about wanting a woman!

They did Second That Emotion, but only for a month....then there's If I Had the World To Give, for a grand total of three performances....

I think Garcia definitely had a sappy streak (Shining Star, come on), but he mostly kept it in line. Some of the songs mentioned - High Time, Scarlet Begonias, Brokedown Palace, I Know You Rider - to call them "love songs" is so simplistic it's meaningless, they're almost more about the pangs & hopes of life in general.
Take a song like Stella Blue - or, for that matter, Sugaree - there's something intangible about the way Garcia sings them, you can hear them as love songs, even though they're not - more about loss & abandonment.
Actually, a lot could be said about the strange dichotomy in Garcia's songs - even though he was such an optimistic guy with a very happy-sounding guitar style, he definitely favored sad, mournful songs. It comes out in his choice of folk covers, too.

To Lay Me Down is definitely a clear & simple love song, though.

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Poster: jerrys beard Date: Sep 28, 2009 2:03pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many love songs anyhow?

Pig's songs are interested. Most are about sex more than love, but even in Caution (or some versions) there is that reconciliation with his "old woman" that at least hints of some feelings of love. A complex fellow that Pig! Just when you hear the "even if she's only 13!" line he puts down something that makes you wonder where he's really coming from...maybe I'm the only one who wonders.

Gotta put my vote in for To Lay Me Down. It really does have a few layers, as any good song does, really does come down to a good love song with a great melody. One of my favorite songs.

Been listening to some Beatles with the newly released "remastered" catalog...great way to get more money out of people. They really wrote the most saccharine (sp) love songs ever written. People still eat them up (to continue the metaphor)...sickly sweet sells.

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Poster: light into ashes Date: Sep 28, 2009 8:22pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many love songs anyhow?

Yeah, I talked a bit about Pigpen in the same vein above....his raunchiness is often mixed with other feelings, it's not always plain & simple sex. The thing is, most of his songs are covers, so we get a lot of layers between the standard blues lyrics, the womanizing "Pigpen persona" of songs like Easy Wind, and the sad & lonely songs he'd sometimes do.

The Beatles did lots of saccharine songs, and lots of non-saccharine songs. I Want You (She's So Heavy) is on the same side as Something - For No One is on the same album as Here There & Everywhere - Girl coexists with Michelle - Why Don't We Do It In The Road is right next to I Will & Julia. Just a few examples of many....there are plenty of 'hurt & bitter' Beatle songs as well, not to mention all their comedy songs that poke fun at love.... And lots of songs that don't mention it at all.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 28, 2009 1:33pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many love songs anyhow?

Ah, yeah--TLMED!

But, as Earl initially stated, HFlow expounded on, and you did as well, for me (which I did not articulate well) it's the fact that most all of them, though as you note, can be called love songs, are a bit more complex, and thus I end up not considering them "sappy"...

I suppose that's all it really is...as usual, the lyric and otherwise allusions brought about by Hunter songs lead us to consider them much richer than a simple love song.

One clarification though: I think of most of PP's songs as being about sex more than love...even when he's missing someone, it's usually really sex...although HMToo indicates he has real feelings for the other party.

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Poster: Earl B. Powell Date: Sep 28, 2009 2:01pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many love songs anyhow?

Holy shit, what hath L-U-V stirred? Again, and again Mr. Primal Minister we find ourselves on the same page in terms of musical appreciation.

Methinks the bottom line is that other than a very few tunes, the references to love are typically subtle. Rather than spoken with clarity are in passing reference, not the primary theme. I choose to leave the PP tunes out, as more of them are traditional and coming from a source that covets the squeezing of the lemon, not the wrenching of the heart.

The other difference, mostly overlooked in replies, is the "sap factor" which as we've mentioned before is more of the sophomoric yearning of a puppy, instead of the knowing articulation of love lost, or love never gained. I don't believe that Hunter, in particular, ever has the listener in a full bore state of any kind of emotion. There has to be a certain kind of gravity or pull toward another emotion that creates a tension. This is the entertainment value of it all, the voyeuristic spectacle of man caught in a dilemma.

I think often about To Lay Me Down as a love song, but the line, "one last time" conjures thoughts of death, or worse, the death of a loved one. Then again, it took me a while to figure out that Dylan's "I Shall Be Released" was not a Christian hymn, but a jail tune. Or was it?

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Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 28, 2009 3:42pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many love songs anyhow?

Well my friend, I have to say if I had read your original post in enough detail I would've seen you covered most of the bases...as usual, it takes me seeing my words, and others contributing, to put together what in the end seems obvious. And of course, we all know that Hunter's amazing writing style just doesn't fit my "sappy" love song classification to begin with, or we wouldn't all be here.

Also agree with you and jgl on TLMD on subsequent reflection; but, that just proves our point--there is always something deeper to a Hunter song. Note how High Flow even read something into TLEO that I had not seen, and removed it from my "sappy" category...

Very cool.

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Poster: light into ashes Date: Sep 28, 2009 8:16pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many love songs anyhow?

Yes, To Lay Me Down is a bit ambiguous, the way they do it.... If Garcia did the same lyrics with the jaunty melody of, say, TLEO, it would be straightfoward, but the way he does it, it's like a dirge... Actually it strikes me as being close to a Christian gospel song, just as spiritual & death-filled as Brokedown Palace.

Pigpen's an interesting case - since most of his songs are blues, naturally lots of them are about sex (like King Bee or Same Thing). But then there's also a tender little thing like Operator, or sad songs like Two Souls or Hurts Me Too - some of them are rather "generic" like Midnight Hour or Good Lovin' (though that one he definitely turned into a sex song).
Lovelight must be his premier love song - and admittedly, he turned that into a sex song too, with his matchmaking fervor, but I think you can hear it as being about Need as much as Lust. "Come on baby, baby please, I'm begging you baby, I'm on my knees..." The raunchiness Pigpen added actually is in rather ironic contrast with the pleading spurned-love lyrics:
Without a warning, you broke my heart
Taken it baby, torn it apart
You left me standing in the dark crying
Said your love for me was dying

Leave it to Pigpen to add an uplifting section about box-back nitties, great big noble thighs, and boar-hog eyes...

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Poster: jglynn1.2 Date: Sep 28, 2009 2:50pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many love songs anyhow?

Yup, Seems to be about love of a dear departed and the upcoming rejoining . . .I could be wrong

To lay me down
once more
To lay me down
with my head
in sparkling clover
Let the world go by
all lost in dreaming
To lay me down
one last time
To lay me down

To be with you
once more
To be with you
with our bodies
close together
Let the world go by
like clouds a-streaming
To lay me down
one last time
To lay me down

To lay me down
To lay me down
To lay me down
One last time
To lay me down

To lie with you
once more
to lie with you
with our dreams
entwined together
To lie beside you
my love still sleeping
to tell sweet lies
one last time
and say goodnight

to lay me down,
to lay me down
to lay me down
one last time
to lay me down
to lay me down
one last time
to lay me down

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Poster: high flow Date: Sep 28, 2009 1:31pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many love songs anyhow?

Since some have made the GD/Beatles comparison.

I'd offer TLMD and I Feel Fine

TLMD:

"Just one last time." That single line in TLMD sets this love song apart from the Beatles tune I mentioned. There is sadness anytime a human does anything for the last time. The lingering question of "why" adds to the melancholy feeling.

I Feel Fine:

I'm so glad
she's my little girl
she's so glad
she's tellin' all the world

That her baby buys her things
ya know, he buys her diamond rings
ya know, she said so

She's in love with me and I feel fine.

I lost 2 teeth just typing those lyrics. No sadness or deeper meaning to be found. Great song.

Jerry seemed to choose folk, bluegrass and Dylan tunes whose lyrics offered a range of emotions within the story. He always picked songs which were great stories(Hunter's and the covers). He was a sharp dude and he had an understanding of just what makes great art great.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 28, 2009 3:50pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many love songs anyhow?

Jesus frickin Christ, HF--this is quite the high flalutin analysis you have going here today...

And, I agree entirely. I Feel Fine is a great example...Just like I love "MyGirl" by those sorts of folks, this one by the Beatles is the kind of love song I can go for; of course, it is not just about love, by referencing the significance of the material world, for example...but, on the other hand, post Beatles Mccartney I could not go for. Or many other sappy love song sorts...

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Poster: high flow Date: Sep 28, 2009 4:20pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many love songs anyhow?

Thanks. Although I ain't falutin...high or otherwise.

I have had trouble expressing my opinions about GD recently. Not sure why that is, but I've typed posts which I've never submitted because I felt the point was lost.

Perhaps this topic has broken through that block I'd been experiencing.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 28, 2009 7:05pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How much love at the Forum?

Well, it always comes thru plainly enough for me...I just assumed you were more on the ball than I and could afford fewer words; I have to "talk" my way to my point, clarifiying as I go, and it often takes me seeing it in print in a post, coming back a few hrs later. Of course, it helps when someone like you or Earl takes the time to explain it to me...I can be unbelievably dense at times, talking about something without expressing it clearly and then BINGO! the other person presents it perfectly as I was attempting to without even recognizing it for myself til I read it.

That's why I really love this place. Now that sounds pathetically sappy, eh?

Can you believe how "big" this thread has become? Even a new gal chimed in?!? We must have hit a "hot button" topic as those in the info biz would say...

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Poster: Dan Russ Date: Sep 28, 2009 3:22pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many love songs anyhow?

And fortuitously he had Hunter to help spell it out!

Suddenly a rainbow rose
And spread across the land
Hung there while the Beatles sang
"I want to hold your hand"

Aim at the heart
Don't ask whose love your stealing
Aim at the heart
Even when it's too revealing
Aim at the heart
I tell you, aim at the heart.

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Poster: light into ashes Date: Sep 28, 2009 9:28pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many love songs anyhow?

Oh, come on.... Why I Feel Fine? That must be the most brainless song the Beatles ever wrote.

Here's a song which is more similar to Lay Me Down:

It's been a long long long time,
How could I ever have lost you,
When I loved you.
It took a long long long time,
Now I'm so happy I found you,
How I love you.
So many tears I was searching,
So many tears I was wasting,
Oh Oh
Now I can see you, be you,
How can I ever misplace you.
How I want you,
Oh I love you,
You know that I need you,
Oh I love you.

Beatles lyrics tend not to stand up on their own too well; for the most part they wrote very simple words, since they considered the lyrics secondary to the song, and usually preferred being clear to being poetic.
But then, listening to this song it's obvious it's about something more than the words say. And this is the same band that gave us:

When I was younger, so much younger than today,
I never needed anybody's help in any way.
But now these days are gone and I'm not so self assured,
Now I find I've changed my mind, I've opened up the doors.

Eleanor Rigby picks up the rice in the church where a wedding has been,
Lives in a dream.
Waits at the window, wearing a face that she keeps in a jar by the door,
Who is it for?

He's a real nowhere man,
Sitting in his nowhere land,
Making all his nowhere plans for nobody.
Doesn't have a point of view,
Knows not where he's going to,
Isn't he a bit like you and me?

I want to tell you,
My head is filled with things to say.
When you're here,
All those words they seem to slip away.

She said I know what it's like to be dead,
I know what it is to be sad,
And she's making me feel like I've never been born.

If the rain comes they run and hide their heads.
They might as well be dead,
If the rain comes, if the rain comes.

Turn off your mind relax and float down-stream,
It is not dying, it is not dying,
Lay down all thought surrender to the void,
It is shining, it is shining.

We were talking about the space between us all
And the people who hide themselves behind a wall of illusion
Never glimpse the truth, then it's far too late, when they pass away.

Nothing to do to save his life, call his wife in
Nothing to say but what a day, how's your boy been
Nothing to do, it's up to you
I've got nothing to say but it's O.K.

Picture yourself in a boat on a river,
With tangerine trees and marmalade skies
Somebody calls you, you answer quite slowly,
A girl with kaleidoscope eyes.

Living is easy with eyes closed
Misunderstanding all you see.
It's getting hard to be someone
But it all works out,
It doesn't matter much to me.

Without going out of my door
I can know all things on earth.
Without looking out of my window
I could know the ways of heaven.
The farther one travels,
The less one knows.

I read the news today, oh boy
About a lucky man who made the grade
And though the news was rather sad
Well I just had to laugh.

You say you want a revolution
Well, you know
We all want to change the world.

Words are flowing out like endless rain into a paper cup,
They slither while they pass, they slip away across the universe.

.....to mention just a few non-love songs.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 29, 2009 7:30am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many love songs anyhow?

Not sure about HF having re-read it, but that (it's brainless) was exactly my point, and what I thought HF was getting at...I agree completely that it's the essence of sappiness, but for me, it works wonderfully. It is in large measure, as you allude to, the WAY they sing it and the music behind it...

So, in the same way that a line like "I got sunshine, on a cloudy day" or "Imagine me and you...I do" or "you, you're all I need to know", the I Feel Fine lyrics are classic brainless, but they succeed. By contrast, at least for me, "They love each other" does not.

Now, I am willing to consider that if the Rascals or Temptations or whomever did TLEO, maybe it would "work" but my point throughout the above is that it doesn't seem to work when done by the DEAD.

At least for me.

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Poster: jglynn1.2 Date: Sep 29, 2009 7:54am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many love songs anyhow?

I still love the bouncy '73 TLEO and enjoy the later slower incantation.

And I am dumbfounded that this thread continues to live.

For the record TLEO never really struck me as Sappy but simply as Lighthearted - rare for Hunter.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 29, 2009 8:33am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many love songs anyhow?

It does just go on and on, eh? Just like "me" I suppose as most folks around here no doubt roll their eyes each time I alter my prior take on some point, and unsurprisingly link it to Munich or some such...

I think the folks that commented above about TLEO revealed that I was being too narrow in assuming the main chorus line meant it HAD to be sappy...ie, the HF comments about a sarcastic element, or DianaW's about "the crash" at the end of infatuation and the like.

So, I think one conclusion we drew is that Hunter love songs are typically more complex, more bittersweet...more often about life in general than just sappy love. But, we also all agreed, I think, that it is a complex issue to even decide what a love song is, and for many, what we thought was simple, may not be?

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Sep 29, 2009 8:46am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Zappa wrote the best love songs

(or how to kill a thread w/o really trying)

You didn't try to call me, why didn't ya try, didn't ya try?
Didn't ya know I was lonely?
No matter who I take home, I keep on calling your name
And you, (I need you so bad), You're The One, babe

Tell me, tell me who's lovin' ya now
'Cause it worries my mind and I can't sleep at all
I stayed home on Friday just to wait for your call
And you didn't try to call me

Why didn't ya try, didn't ya try?
Didn't ya know I was lonely?
No matter who I take home, I keep on calling your name
And you, (I need you so bad), you're The One, babe

Tell me, tell me who's lovin' ya now
'Cause it worries my mind and I can't sleep at all
I stayed home on Friday just to wait for your call
I can't say what's right or
what's wrong
But I love you!
All ya gotta do is call me babe
'Cause I want you!

You make me feel so excited girl
I got so hung up on you from the moment that we met
That no matter how I try, I can't keep the tears
From running down my face
I'm all alone at my place

You didn't try to call me, why didn't ya try, didn't ya try?
Didn't ya know I was lonely?
Why didn't ya try, didn't ya try, didn't ya know I was lonely?
I stayed home all afternoon man
I was working on my car, I fixed the upholstery
I fixed the seat so it would tilt back
We were going to go to the drive-in and you didn't call me man
I waited, it was Friday night, I remember now
It was nine o'clock and I was sitting on home
I was still watching television and ya didn't try to call me
We'd been going steady for six weeks and I thought you were my
teenage prill
I thought you were my teenangel man
But you didn't call me
I dig ya so much man, why didn't ya call me
If you could have seen me in the afternoon
I was hung up, I even washed the car
I, I reprimered the right front fender man
We were gonna go, we were gonna go out
And get some root beer afterwards man
And I was gonna show everybody my new carburettor
And ya didn't try to call me

And the son carries the torch:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKTiafgJ9JI&;feature=related

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Poster: jglynn1.2 Date: Sep 29, 2009 9:09am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Zappa wrote the best love songs

LMFAO!!!

hahahahahahahahhahha

good ole FZ hits the nail on the head

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Poster: snori Date: Sep 28, 2009 2:22pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many love songs anyhow?

I've always thought that Stella Blue is a song about Dark Star and a musician's life on the road.

This post was modified by snori on 2009-09-28 21:22:18

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Poster: light into ashes Date: Sep 28, 2009 9:51pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many love songs anyhow?

I still don't know what Stella Blue is about.....maybe "Stella Blue" is just the imaginary name of "that song"....over time, it became a song about itself.
I just mentioned it since, the way Garcia sings the name, it's easy to assume that somewhere in there, he's addressing some lost love. But (as with Sugaree), Hunter left the song so vague we can barely tell what the situation was.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 28, 2009 4:23pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many love songs anyhow?

That's an interesting take, snori...haven't thought of it in those terms, but I think I can see what you're getting at...

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Poster: snori Date: Sep 29, 2009 1:07am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many love songs anyhow?

I just equate 'Stella' as 'Stellar', and the blue is a dark blue. I have a simple mind.

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Poster: deadpolitics Date: Sep 28, 2009 9:42pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many love songs anyhow?

For sure, snori. In the end there's still That Song, the song that is always playing, the one that you just have to reach out into the ethers to find and express - which perfectly fits the whole concept of Dark Star as a song, That Song.

No matter how demanding life is out on the road, the first love for a true musician is always the music, as it surely was for Garcia - a man whose relationships with women came and went but Music was always there... for 30+ years.

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Poster: jglynn1.2 Date: Sep 28, 2009 10:08am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many love songs anyhow?

Or if the song mentions Street-cats Making Love - sappiest of all?

Brent Tunes - are there any that are not sappy / cheesy?

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Poster: DeadATL Date: Sep 28, 2009 11:55am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many love songs anyhow?

Looks Like Rain may be my least favorite Dead tune. I avoid certain shows to stay clear of it... Is this just my quirk or does anyone else feel the same way?

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Poster: DianaW Date: Sep 28, 2009 1:08pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many love songs anyhow?

Yes. (Not a dude.) Looks like rain is the only Dead song I really do not like, and for just that reason - the closest thing they ever did to schmaltz. Yuck. TLEO - nothing like that!!

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Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 28, 2009 1:30pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many love songs anyhow?

Welcome Miss Dudette!

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Poster: elbow1126 Date: Sep 28, 2009 7:05pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many love songs anyhow?

I love how you can be in the middle of a very interesting thread and stop on a dime to become The Forum Ladies Man. Smooooooooooth Operator.


As for the thread, I didn't see a mention of Two Souls In Communion in this one. Is there a song more about love than this one?

What are they seeing, when they look in each other's eyes?
What are they feeling, when they see each other smile?
Is it love, I don't know - or an emotion that I've outgrown?
Did I take a wrong turn on life's winding road?
Won't somebody help me find the right way to go?
My life need some correction, alteration in direction.
Won't somebody stand by me - yes, I'm lost, yes, I'm lost,
Yes, I'm lost.
What is the secret of this tie that binds?
Two souls in communion, both body and mind.
Is it special magic, or just the nature of things?
Conceived of great spirit, not for beggars but for kings.
You who have found it please help me along.
I'm a man, I'm a man, - I'm not made out of stone.
My needs they are simple, I don't want anything,
but I surely want to fly on those wings, on the run, one more time.
All I wanna do, fly up, fly home.
Fly on those wings of love, fly up, fly home,
I'm a stranger in your town, fly up, fly home,
Help me somebody please! Fly up, fly home.
I wake up early in the morning, fly up, fly home,
you know I never saw you babe, fly up, fly home.
I just can't seem to understand,
can't seem to understand what's wrong, fly up, fly home.
What I wanna do is take a little ride with you, on the wings of love,
woh-oh one more time, one more time.

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Poster: light into ashes Date: Sep 28, 2009 7:20pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many love songs anyhow?

This song popped into my mind too, it's not typical for Pigpen, very wistful - indeed, even sappy - although I think it gains a lot when you put it in context with his other songs when he's always shacking up with one rider or another....

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Poster: elbow1126 Date: Sep 28, 2009 7:39pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many love songs anyhow?

Yeah, I also think about a guy writing those lyrics and performing that song in the last full year of his life. A little self-reflection after his inability to tour in the fall of '71?

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Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 28, 2009 7:48pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many love songs anyhow?

Ah, excellent catch you two! Defn didn't think of that one, and it is defn not about sex per my prior generalization. As for dimes and change, at least it wasn't in the thread on World War I or Reaganomics...And, I will say, it's a tough job, but a PM has to foster positive relationships with foriegn entities, especially those of a nature we have so rarely made contact with here at the testosterone rampaging Forum, right? Boldly going where...well, you get the idea.

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Poster: elbow1126 Date: Sep 28, 2009 7:59pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many love songs anyhow?

There is no question, you are our FEARLESS leader.

Oh yeah, have you considered the possibility that the threads on Reaganomics and WWI might be what is keeping the ladies away?

This post was modified by elbow1126 on 2009-09-29 02:59:33

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Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 28, 2009 8:04pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many love songs anyhow?

Oh crap! That's it! Shatter what little selfconfidence I had built up after three years here...jeezzz. If you hadn't scared me like this, I was considering asking her about her take on the role of the T-34 in the denial of Barbarosa and the defense of Moscow, hoping to enlist her in my ongoing debate with K-man and NC (now I imagine you'll tell me THEY don't even think the conversation is ongoing like I do!....they do, don't they???). Now I'll have to figure some other means of ingratiating myself to her...Do you think random selections from my biological papers would impress?

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Poster: elbow1126 Date: Sep 28, 2009 8:11pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many love songs anyhow?

Well I know it would impress me, but I may not be the right person to ask. Remember I am also a biologist. I never found that saying your a scientist was a great way to make inroads with the ladies. Maybe you should impress her with your knowledge of TOO from 12-29-68. Or maybe not.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 28, 2009 8:19pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many love songs anyhow?

Ha--of course, that's why I mentioned it, as I know you and I are two souls in comm--er, whoops! Meant that for my next post after I get my courage back up...anyhow, boy--as I was saying to HF, this has been ONE big thread! I haven't spent this much time here since explaining my interest in Stalingrad to veb!

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Poster: Dan Russ Date: Sep 28, 2009 9:19pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many love songs anyhow?

big indeed - we may have hit 100.
I'm done.

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Poster: Dan Russ Date: Sep 28, 2009 9:05pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many love songs anyhow?

For that matter, maybe there is more you haven't shared yet about the show that started this thread off - you sure impressed me!

edit - in case it wasn't apparent elb, this was directed at WT

This post was modified by Dan Russ on 2009-09-29 04:05:36

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Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 28, 2009 8:24pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many love songs anyhow?

I just realized it was my fav show, from Sep 75!!! At least of those I attended...

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Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 28, 2009 1:29pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many love songs anyhow?

Oh, if you search on this tune with us regulars, you will find a vent fest, I think...I know I have said exactly this about that before...really don't like the song.

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Poster: light into ashes Date: Sep 28, 2009 7:15pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many love songs anyhow?

You're not alone.... I loathe Looks Like Rain.

There was also the "I Hate 'Black-Throated Wind' Club" thread here:
http://www.archive.org/iathreads/post-view.php?id=250038

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Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 28, 2009 7:52pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many love songs anyhow?

Ha! Yep, that was the BIG one for sure!

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Poster: Dan Russ Date: Sep 28, 2009 3:17pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many love songs anyhow?

Diving in the deep end here, Brent’s songs were usually about broken love, excepting of course IWTYH. All sappy for sure I guess. Wary of what might come of it, I propose that Blow Away (lyric by Barlow) has deeper significance for me, especially as I always really (really) loved hearing him sing it. Maybe in this cosmic dance on earth we are all empty bottles that can’t be filled. But who’s to say…

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Poster: deadpolitics Date: Sep 28, 2009 10:46pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many love songs anyhow?

Easy To Love You just may be the most "McCartney type" love song the GD ever performed...

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Poster: light into ashes Date: Sep 28, 2009 7:24pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many love songs anyhow?

Brent's love songs are one of the reasons some of us avoid the '80s.... Well, that and his singing. And playing.

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Poster: Dan Russ Date: Sep 28, 2009 8:25pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many love songs anyhow?

relentless!
(or preferably Brent-less?)
:)

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Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 28, 2009 3:47pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many love songs anyhow?

OK, vaps, if you're diving in to save Brent, I just have to let you know, I'll help you out, but I ain't throwing a life preserver to Brent. Harsh, but there you have it.

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Poster: Dan Russ Date: Sep 28, 2009 4:52pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many love songs anyhow?

Good to know you’ve got my back – too late for Brent, he done drowned himself already.
But he did speak to me back when I knew him.

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Poster: cosmic charlie dupree Date: Sep 28, 2009 9:42am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many love songs anyhow?

It Must Have Been The Roses (I actually kind of like that tune).

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Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 28, 2009 10:07am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many love songs anyhow?

Yeah, me too...but, looking at the lyrics again, below, it sorta fits what I was getting at above--seems there are a lot of references to life in general, and thus for me anyhow, it doesn't really fit the mccartney esque classification of sappy lovesong if you follow (maybe I am drawing too fine a line?):

Annie layed her head down in the roses
She had ribbons, ribbons, ribbons
in her long brown hair
I don't know, it must have been the roses
All I know is I could not leave her there

I don't know, it must have been the roses
The roses or the ribbons in her long brown hair
I don't know maybe it was the roses
All I know was I could not leave her there

Ten years the waves rolled the
ships home from the sea
Thinking well how it may blow
in all good company
if I tell another what
your own lips told to me
may I lay neath the roses
and my eyes no longer see

I don't know, it must have been the roses
The roses or the ribbons in her long brown hair
I don't know maybe it was the roses
All I know was I could not leave her there

One pane of glass in the window
No one is complaining though,
come in and shut the door
Faded is the crimson from the
ribbons that she wore
and it's strange how no one
comes round anymore

I don't know, it must have been the roses
The roses or the ribbons in her long brown hair
I don't know maybe it was the roses
All I know was I could not leave her there

Annie layed her head down in the roses
She had ribbons, ribbons, ribbons
in her long brown hair
I don't know, it must have been the roses
All I know was I could not leave her there

I don't know, it must have been the roses
The roses or the ribbons in her long brown hair
I don't know maybe it was the roses
All I know was I could not leave her there

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Poster: cosmic charlie dupree Date: Sep 28, 2009 10:43am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many love songs anyhow?

Completely agree - no McCartney-type love at all. The line "All I know was I could not leave her there" is so much more powerful, though. To me, it's the idea that you are so drawn to a woman that you would stake your entire life to be with her.

OK, given that 99.9% of this forum is dudes, we're walking a bit of a tightrope with this thread! But.... chalk me up as a sensitive guy.

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Poster: lobster12 Date: Sep 28, 2009 12:02pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many love songs anyhow?

Reuben and Cherise comes to mind

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Poster: B.C. Cox Date: Sep 28, 2009 9:49am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many love songs anyhow?

TOO MANY TOO MENTION >

http://www.archive.org/details/gd76-07-14.sbd.vernon.18594.sbeok.shnf

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Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 28, 2009 10:06am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many love songs anyhow?

Not sure I follow...

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Poster: skies Date: Sep 28, 2009 2:04pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many love songs anyhow?

Cassidy is true love song for me ;one of the rare song without problem to understand in english !

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Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 28, 2009 3:46pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many love songs anyhow?

Yes, I take your meaning skies, but I think I would say it isn't "sappy" if you follow...

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Poster: skies Date: Sep 29, 2009 5:24am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many love songs anyhow?

But still, William Tell : Cassidy is a spiritual love song about freedom granted to one another to evolve their personnal way ,without resentment ,on the contrary ,with appreciation .

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Poster: cosmic chuck Date: Sep 28, 2009 4:13pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many love songs anyhow?

It would seem Loose Lucy should be on a list of love songs......I mean it has such tender sentiments as "Loose Lucy is my delight She comes running and we ball all night" and the soulful and touching.....She's my yo-yo, I'm her string Listen to the birds on the hot wire sing".

as an aside TLEO is one of the few Dead songs my wife will say she really likes. I am not sure if this means it is too sappy or if it means that it has a more general song than most of the other songs in the catalog.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 28, 2009 4:24pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many love songs anyhow?

Hmmm...that's sorta interesting. It might be more accessible in some sense, as you note.

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Poster: Grateful Rat Date: Sep 28, 2009 5:25pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many love songs anyhow?

One of my attractions to the music is the focus on "I" the indivdual..yes we have love..numerous songs that were mentioned but the focus is so much on the individual..morning dew..wharf rat..muddy rive..so many roads.. We as dead heads focus on that individual thought and find it hard to find others who think like that..most people are not comfortable thinking about their lives . they hide behind cellphones texting and television.. when it comes down to it..many people dont get it..too bad for them

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Sep 28, 2009 12:23pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many love songs anyhow?

Or how about this one?

"I want to be your chauffeur, I want to ride your little machine
I want to put a tiger, baby I want to put a tiger, baby.
I want to put a tiger, baby, hey in your sweet little tank."

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Poster: Dan Russ Date: Sep 28, 2009 10:20am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many love songs anyhow?

Song about love or a love song? Not only sappy? Limited to album cuts only?
High Time might be the first.

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Sep 28, 2009 10:25am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many love songs anyhow?

Money, Money is the best.

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Poster: Dan Russ Date: Sep 28, 2009 10:35am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many love songs anyhow?

I’m thinking of a different love.

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Poster: B.C. Cox Date: Sep 28, 2009 11:20am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many love songs anyhow?

Run,run, run for the roses, the bigger it opens, the sooner it closes.
Meddle, meddle, friend of mine, all good things in all good time.

Reach for the sun, catch hold of the moon.
That ball too heavy, but what can you do.
Reach for the stars, smack into the sky.
You don't want to live but you're chicken to die.
Ohhh, you're chicken to die.

Run, run, run for the roses, the bigger it opens the sooner it closes.
Meddle, meddle, friend of mine, all good things in all good time.

Run for the money, caught short on the rent.
Big ideas, but the cash is all spent.
The trouble with love is it's on vase.
You just want a cup, but you don't want to race.
No, you don't want to race.

Run,run, run for the roses, the bigger it opens, the sooner it closes.
Meddle, meddle, friend of mine, all good things in all good time.

Run for the roses, get caught on the briar.
You wanted to love, next thing there's a fire.
You got the Do Re, I got the Mi.
I got the notion we're all at sea.
Yes, we're all at sea.

Run, run, run for the roses, the bigger it opens, the sooner it closes.
Meddle, meddle, friend of mine, all good things in all good time.

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Poster: Dan Russ Date: Sep 28, 2009 4:46pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many love songs anyhow?

Can’t help but say – it would be nice if you had your lyrics right. :)

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Poster: high flow Date: Sep 28, 2009 5:01pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many love songs anyhow?

In his defense, the lyrics came from this sight.....

http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~mleone/dead-lyrics.html

Just check the Lyrics for "Ain't It Crazy"! "Momma tell the chicken her body was a duck."!!!! Really? Somebody is making this stuff up!

Mama cooked a chicken, thought it was a duck
she put it on the table w/ it's feet stickin up

Etta said, "with it's legs cocked-up".....I love it.

This post was modified by high flow on 2009-09-29 00:01:02

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Poster: Dan Russ Date: Sep 28, 2009 6:18pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many love songs anyhow?

Yeah, as I’ve learned myself, it pays to check more resources. You’ve got me laughing – misread lyrics can be very amusing! And I like what you’ve said here today; there are posts I sure wish I hadn’t submitted.

I don’t know where this mean streak comes from, but in my defense:
http://www.archive.org/iathreads/post-view.php?id=256041

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Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 28, 2009 8:36pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many love songs anyhow?

Musk rat?

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Poster: Dan Russ Date: Sep 28, 2009 8:42pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many love songs anyhow?

To me? As in they whirled and they twirled and they tangoed? Not what I was thinking, but if their love is fostered by dancing together to the dead, and if it's not LLR or a Brent tune, it's fine by me!

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Poster: deadpolitics Date: Sep 28, 2009 10:48pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many love songs anyhow?

You best keep your Day Job or otherwise how will you buy her all those healing crystals, veggie burritos, and tie-dye skirts?

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Poster: SkyDawg Date: Sep 28, 2009 3:31pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many love songs anyhow?

To my ears the most mainstream "love song" in their recorded history is "If I Had The World To Give". Jerry never sounded comfortable singing it though in spite of turning in a great version or two, especially the 10/17/78 one:

http://www.archive.org/details/gd1978-10-17.sbd.miller.89257.sbeok.flac16

As a cover song Dylan's "She Belongs To Me" is another.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_8obCnsw4c

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Poster: light into ashes Date: Sep 28, 2009 7:40pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many love songs anyhow?

She Belongs To Me....love song? I guess. But certainly not a 'mainstream' one. Garcia was attracted to lots of Dylan songs, in part for their intelligent qualities - like Hunter, one song can seem to say many different things.
Like this particular song, the title is clearly ironic - this particular girl can twirl any guy around her finger - though the song doesn't say anything specific about feelings, it's all implied. I'd consider it one of Dylan's "worship songs", he often addresses songs to some mysterious goddess.

You'll start out standing, proud to steal her anything she sees
But you'll wind up peeking through her keyhole upon your knees

This post was modified by light into ashes on 2009-09-29 02:40:56

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Poster: Dan Russ Date: Sep 28, 2009 3:42pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many love songs anyhow?

Believe It Or Not

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Poster: sydthecat2 Date: Sep 28, 2009 1:55pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many love songs anyhow?

Corrina.

You asked.

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Sep 28, 2009 10:10am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many love songs anyhow?

man, i try to turn myself around and look at the comment i get :(




;)

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Poster: high flow Date: Sep 28, 2009 10:15am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many love songs anyhow?

Great thread.

With the Grateful Dead it always seems to be more than singing about "that girl", or "the first time", or "my sweetheart". When it comes to GD songs and love, they tend to focus on other aspects of love. Love lost, the search for love, love denied, love delayed or the death of love.

It is Hunter's ability to convey love's bitter-sweet nature which draws the listener in on an emotional level.

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Poster: cosmic charlie dupree Date: Sep 28, 2009 10:39am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many love songs anyhow?

Very well said.... that's what I get with It Must Have Been the Roses. It's not about how cute the girl is, it's not about sex, but it's about the deeper longing that happens maybe once in your lifetime - if you're lucky.

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Poster: Dan Russ Date: Sep 28, 2009 10:54am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many love songs anyhow?

Lucky or not, I know I’ll carry that deeper longing with me until I die. It’s Hunters’ gift of prose, like you say high flow, and that emotional level where his words and Jerry’s delivery carry me is indeed intangible.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 28, 2009 11:30am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many love songs anyhow?

What was her name, vaps?

Hope that is not too personal...

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Poster: Dan Russ Date: Sep 28, 2009 2:27pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many love songs anyhow?

That’s just it, the heart of the matter as it were - my thinking on the subject of love (in GD songs, JGB, Hunter, etc ) really has nothing to do with a guy /girl relationship, although the lyric may use this as a vehicle. The love I think about with certain songs is really a sort of spiritual love, or longing to be right with whatever the truth of love in this world is. That in itself may sound pretty sappy, but I remember that magic cosmic feeling and that longing that so many songs presented.

Her name, well let’s call her Lady Lullaby.

BTW, upon re-read I see I may have been coming off a bit abrasive. I’m really not so crabby. I should have entered this love song fray with a little more tact and decorum.
Apologies to all. If I Had the World To Give...

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Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 28, 2009 3:05pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many love songs anyhow?

Oh, not at all Dan! I wouldn't say so...

As to the question I posed, it was because of the depth of feeling behind "carry it to my grave" you posted that I assumed, like so many of us, you had one special situation in which you have always longed for what might have been, etc., etc., that you could tell us her name...I have one, but can't reveal it here.

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Poster: deadpolitics Date: Sep 28, 2009 6:42pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many love songs anyhow?

never cared much for careless love

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Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 28, 2009 11:28am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many love songs anyhow?

Exactly! That's what I was getting at...there really aren't any that go on and on about love in and of itself, in a selfcongratulatory fashion like TLEO, IMHO (sorta similar to "My Girl" which if they sang like that, would be okay...).

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Poster: high flow Date: Sep 28, 2009 11:56am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many love songs anyhow?

I detect a touch of sarcasm in TLEO. This song is about puppy love, but it is written from a wiser man's point-of-view.

The wise man understands what the lovers are feeling AND he knows young lovers are blinded by emotion. Blind to the fact that puppy love is easy, but the road to true love can be rough.

How Sweet It Is is the only love song(performed by GD/JGB) I can think of which has no darker side. Obviously this was a cover tune which was seldom played by GD.

It seems to me that the band chose cover tunes w/ the same slant on love. Never too sweet.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 28, 2009 1:31pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many love songs anyhow?

Ah--been many yrs for me to listen to TLEO but I hadn't thought of it having that component...I thought it was straight up embracing the puppy love aspect.

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Poster: deadpolitics Date: Sep 28, 2009 10:41pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many love songs anyhow?

I definitely read TLEO like that as well.

The couple hits it off and everything is gravy, but the love has not yet been tested. The singer offers the advice to look into the future and see where this is going, if anywhere, and hints to get out of there before this whole thing rolls over, so as to say, "Enjoy it, but don't say I didn't warn ya!"

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Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 28, 2009 10:21am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many love songs anyhow?

Boy, you are on your toes...can't believe you found that comment so deep in a post of mine. Bored stiff, eh? Hmmm--no jokes about that reference in the sappy love song thread; it might get obscene fast...

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Sep 28, 2009 12:07pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many love songs anyhow?

Brokedown Palace.

If that's not a song about love, I don't know what is.

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Sep 28, 2009 12:11pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many love songs anyhow?

Know You Rider (trad., GD arr.) Same is true of Don't Ease Me In.

This post was modified by bluedevil on 2009-09-28 19:11:44